Jaiden Robinson 00:00:11  Hello everyone and welcome back to The Rave Social Podcast. I’m your host, Jaiden, and today we have Aubrey. She is an incredible photographer and stock photography expert. Basically, she teaches people how to like make tons of money off of stock photography, which is just crazy and like amazing. So Aubrey, why don’t you tell us a little bit about you and what you do and maybe who you serve? Hi Jaiden, thank you.

Aubrey Westlund 00:00:36  So much for having me. And I just I feel like we need to stop and, like, take a moment to appreciate that we actually made it here.

Aubrey Westlund 00:00:46  Like, I think we had to reschedule this, like, seven times, and it was usually like something out of our control. Like last week, my internet went out during a thunderstorm and they, like they had to come and like rewire everything. And I don’t even know why, but it’s just been like everything has been like that. So I’m just so happy to finally be here with you.

Jaiden Robinson 00:01:14  Yes.

Jaiden Robinson 00:01:15  Me too.

Aubrey Westlund 00:01:16  And as you said, I am a photographer. I actually started as a wedding photographer and I did that for about ten years. And during that time I discovered stock photography and it was just something I did on the side. And then in 2020, I basically ended up just shifting to focus fully on stock photography when the whole world shut down and I lost all of my weddings and I just realized, hey, I love this. Like, why don’t I keep doing this and like, bring other photographers along with me? And I basically started with a workshop, an online workshop during that time. And as you can imagine, everyone was interested because all the other photographers were in the same place as me and wanted to learn about this great passive income stream. So then that just kind of became my full time focus along with being a mom. So that’s kind of what brings me to where I am today.

Jaiden Robinson 00:02:19  That is so cool and like, so awesome to think about how like, that time was so scary for just so many people.

Jaiden Robinson 00:02:27  Like even I had a full time job at the time, but I was in sales and so it was very like, I’m pretty sure we had like a zero sales month, and it was just like, what is going on? And like to be able to quickly shift and like, I can only imagine how scary it was for like you and other photographers to be like, I lost all my weddings like that is my income. Like, what do I do? And for you to provide that is crazy.

Aubrey Westlund 00:02:53  Not only that, but like my ex-husband and I had just moved back to Idaho because we had had a baby. We wanted to be close to family and we were already in this place of like, let’s start over. Like, this is going to be great. We can do this. We move back to Idaho. We’re like staying with his parents because we’re like, oh, we can buy a house in Idaho. We moved from San Diego. We’re like, we can buy a house here.

Aubrey Westlund 00:03:21  This is going to be so great. And then it ended up like we’re stuck living with them out of necessity for a year and like, lost a lot of our savings because a lot of our weddings that we had already booked were either cancelled or postponed. So like, that’s a whole year of income for both of us. And so like, I think the craziest thing about that time is like, these things happened that nobody ever thought could happen, like you said, as zero sales month.

Jaiden Robinson 00:03:52  Like, yeah, I was like, am I going to wind up like, nobody’s doing anything. Yeah, that is just so crazy. And, like, it’s funny. It’s making me think about the economy right now. Because the economy right now, I think it feels weird to a lot of people, like you can kind of feel some restriction. People are slowing their spending, whatever. And like when you’re a business owner, it’s like so scary, right? You’re like, right, I need clients, I need the income.

Jaiden Robinson 00:04:16  Like what is happening. And to hear your story and how you were just like, I just shifted into like, stock photography and like, you made that. Your thing is like, it’s just beautiful because it’s like there is opportunity. Like there is opportunity. And you may have to shift and you.

Aubrey Westlund 00:04:31  Might not figure it out on the first try because I actually during that year I started a financial planner program. I wanted to like be a financial planner. Yeah, at one point, because I also love finance. But like I failed that because I had a one year old I like literally failed the course because I didn’t have enough time and it was like so intense and so like, I had to figure something out that worked like with my life too. And so that’s the other thing is like it might take a few tries you, but like, if you can figure something out that actually works for you in your life, like in the long run, it’s going to be so much better. It’s so true and it’s worth it.

Jaiden Robinson 00:05:13  So amazing. Wow, I love it and I’m so excited to have you on today. We we had talked about talking a little bit about like lazy girl marketing strategy. And to me the word lazy. Like I love it because I’m like, cool, let’s be lazy. I don’t have that like negative connotation with it. But if you’re not liking the word lazy, like you could switch that out for like soft girl marketing or whatever feels better to you.

Aubrey Westlund 00:05:37  Yeah, I did this lazy girl stock photography boot camp and at like some people did have that response. Like, I’m not lazy. I’m like, trust me, I’m not lazy either. But like the idea was more, I’m going to give you like these tips and tricks to make stock photography easier for you. Yeah, but at the same time, it’s like there’s always going to be upfront work, but then it’s like lazy is almost like passive income to me. Like it’s almost like the same idea.

Jaiden Robinson 00:06:07  I agree, and I like the word lazy because like, who decided that that’s like bad? Like, let’s write.

Jaiden Robinson 00:06:13  It’s okay to like people.

Aubrey Westlund 00:06:15  Like, exactly like, why do we hate this? Because in my mind, like the times when I rest, when I’m allowing myself to be lazy, that’s like the refresh. That’s like when I get my best ideas.

Jaiden Robinson 00:06:28  Yeah, it’s so true. So let’s dive into that a little bit. So one thing you said, you’re like, well, my biggest tip is to just keep going. I’ve been doing this for over ten years. Yeah. Which I love. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about that journey?

Aubrey Westlund 00:06:43  Oh, yeah. I would love to. So I went to school. I have an art degree and my focus was graphic design. And then I did get a minor in photography. I graduated from college in 2010.

Jaiden Robinson 00:07:00  We love it.

Aubrey Westlund 00:07:01  That was also like there were no jobs in 2010. Like at least so real. It’s similar to now. Well, maybe I mean, there are jobs now, but it’s similar to maybe like say you graduated in 2020, but I could not find a job.

Aubrey Westlund 00:07:20  And I tried so hard, like I was like top of my class. I got an award for being like designer of the year, and I still couldn’t find a job. And I ended up getting a job for a realtor, and it was a graphic design job. But then I ended up being like a secretary. Like answering phones, which like nothing against that. But I hate answering phones. And she was also like, she’s very good at what she does. Like she’s the top realtor where I live. But obviously that comes with like a lot of stress and a toxic environment. So I would go home and cry every single day and then I, oh, I would work on my Etsy shop.

Jaiden Robinson 00:08:09  Which you have been going at this for a while.

Aubrey Westlund 00:08:13  If you know about this, but I actually started with an Etsy wedding invitation shop, and this was kind of back in the day where like it was easier to blow up on Etsy. I was like kind of promoted by Etsy on their front page and in their emails and stuff.

Aubrey Westlund 00:08:31  And so it only took like three months for me to replace my income, which was like $10 at the time. Okay. So it wasn’t like I was making the big bucks, but I was able to quit that job and I just like went full time on Etsy. Wow. And then that also kind of gave us the ability to move to San Diego because I was getting like, just like inklings that maybe I wanted to be a wedding photographer. I had been asked, like by a friend of a friend, to shoot their wedding because people just knew, like, oh yeah, Aubrey has a camera. She’s an artist. She could shoot her wedding. So we did shoot one wedding, and I loved it at the time. And I was like, yeah, I want to go all in and shoot weddings and like, do the wedding invitation business. And so we moved to San Diego so that, like, we could kind of like start our business and like, there’s just more people there.

Aubrey Westlund 00:09:30  There’s weddings year round. So it was like sort of a strategic like if we want to launch our business, let’s do it there. And I did this with my ex-husband. So when I say we it was him. And so the invitation business kind of gave like enough wiggle room to where like, we could move. And I was still making some money and we could, like, start this business. And then I feel like it was like a, it took like a year. And then we were like booking full time weddings year round. So cool. So we would shoot weddings in San Diego, Los Angeles, Palm Springs, Joshua Tree, like kind of like all these dream locations for weddings, right? And I think that helped us to, like, get recognized more quickly. Like back in the day, it was all about like getting featured on wedding blogs and like, sitting there like these super cool weddings. The thing about weddings is people like to see themselves in your photos. Yeah.

Aubrey Westlund 00:10:30  So they see, like the super cool, beautiful couple and like, that’s how they want to see themselves on their wedding day. Then that’s kind of like how some people will choose their photographers 100%.

Jaiden Robinson 00:10:43  That’s huge. I work with so many photographers and like, that’s the thing. Like, you have to get your audience to see themselves in, in front of your camera. Exactly. Because they need to know what it’s going to look like on their day. Yeah. That’s so cool.

Aubrey Westlund 00:10:59  Yeah. So I think that really contributed to a lot of our success. But at the same time, like, I have grown so much as like a marketer and just as being someone who’s like comfortable being seen, I think like at that time I was so afraid to like, be seen for who I was. And so I hid so much, like behind my work. Yeah. And I think that I could have enjoyed my business a lot more and probably like, not have been gotten as burnt out if I had, like, learned that a bit earlier in my career.

Jaiden Robinson 00:11:38  Yeah. I was gonna ask you what one of your like, big marketing or like mistakes or regrets you felt like was. And so like that’s one of them. Do you have any others that like you wish you would have just done differently or done sooner to market any of your businesses?

Aubrey Westlund 00:11:55  Yeah, I mean, that’s definitely the first thing that comes to mind is just like I think like in photography, there’s a big conversation about like ideal clients and dream clients and like, that’s what everyone wants. Like, everyone has this idea of, like, this is the type of person that I want to work with. And I think that absolute easiest way to do that, even if you don’t like, know what type of person that is. It’s like if you can be yourself and like show that to the world, I think that’s automatically going to attract people that you’re going to enjoy working with.

Jaiden Robinson 00:12:37  I agree, because like, it’s less about like a target audience persona and all of that nitty gritty stuff that like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:12:44  Is helpful to a degree. It’s less about that, and it’s more about just like showing up as who you are, because then those people are gonna find you and they’re gonna know you, like they’re gonna know how you work. They’re going to know that you’re like either a super organized like Capricorn Queen, or they’re going to know that you’re more of like a flowy artist type and like, that’s going to change. Who wants to work with you, right? It just aligns you better when people know who you are before they hire you.

Aubrey Westlund 00:13:15  I think this is true for so many industries. And like you said, if you’re a flowy artist type, that’s probably the type of person you would like to work with. And that’s how you’re going to attract that type of person. It’s like if you’re showing up on stories, just like as you’re laid back self or in your copy, like that’s going to attract that person. And I think like I overthought, like what I was like putting out there, what I was sharing to the point where, like, I was too afraid to even share things.

Aubrey Westlund 00:13:48  That is.

Jaiden Robinson 00:13:48  Huge. Yeah.

Aubrey Westlund 00:13:49  Yeah. And that I think, like that really held me back from, like, having a lot more fun in my business. The other thing is, like, if you’re trying to sign clients and you’re getting them on like a consultation call or something, it’s going to be so much easier for them to sign with you or to choose you if they already feel like they know you. And it’s also going to be easier on you because like, I would show up to these like zoom consultations and I would feel so nervous because it’s like this is an interview and they’re deciding between me and this other photographer, so I have to make a good impression. And then that just like puts so much pressure on you to perform, or it’s like if they already feel like they know you and then it’s just like you’re really just showing up to like answer their questions and stuff. It’s just going to be so much more successful. Like you’re probably going to sign a lot more clients that way than like just trying to, like, wait to get them on the call and then try to like, wow them, right?

Jaiden Robinson 00:14:52  Yeah.

Jaiden Robinson 00:14:53  And I think it’s hard for people like in the beginning stages when you’re saying, like, you know, show up this way, like show up, show yourself. I think, like people can be nervous to do that perfectly, or they’re worried like, I’m going to change and evolve, like how I show up right now. What might be different in a year? Like, what if I change my mind or whatever it will? Yeah. And to that I say like, go for it. Like I’m a completely different person. Like my content is so different from what it was a year ago. And like it’s all good. Like, I don’t even worry or think about that ever, because I’m just like, of.

Aubrey Westlund 00:15:26  Course I think people appreciate seeing that too. Like it’s almost like you’re giving them permission to change their mind and yeah, be someone different. Right.

Jaiden Robinson 00:15:36  I’m like, honestly, they’re not following you that closely. It’s not like one day you were this and the next day you’re that.

Jaiden Robinson 00:15:44  Like, you change slower than that. So like, it’s not like somebody’s really even going to notice, you know, that you evolve.

Aubrey Westlund 00:15:51  I don’t think anyone notices. I think it’s yeah, it’s more like I think you’re going to keep their attention longer if you are evolving because you’re going to keep things interesting. But I don’t think they’re going to judge you for that.

Jaiden Robinson 00:16:05  No. And if they are like, I don’t know, I just wouldn’t work with them. Like that’s weird. Just unfollow me. Like, why does it matter? But I think that also has like a perfectionism element to it where like you were saying, you were even nervous. You’re like, I felt like I always had to have these things to be perfect, whatever. And like I just say, like, do you ever want to talk to a perfect person? Because, like, I don’t write. I’ve talked to people who think they’re perfect and they’re awful to talk to.

Aubrey Westlund 00:16:33  Exactly.

Jaiden Robinson 00:16:34  And I don’t want to be their friend.

Jaiden Robinson 00:16:35  So, like, it’s okay to not be perfect.

Aubrey Westlund 00:16:38  Yeah, I think we would all prefer to see imperfection over perfection.

Jaiden Robinson 00:16:45  Yeah. So going a little bit deeper into that, you’ve been creating content for a very long time, marketing these businesses, using social media, using Etsy, like all of these things. What do you feel like has shifted there? Like how should people be showing up now? You know, we talked about being personal but a little deeper than that. Like what is working.

Aubrey Westlund 00:17:05  I think people they want to see like behind the scenes, they want to see like behind the curtain. They want to see you like in your home, in your element. They want to see you in your, like, yoga pants. Like, I think that sometimes I’m like worried. I’m like, I’m wearing a baseball hat again today. My hair is unwashed and like, I feel like I’m always showing up like this. And then I’m like, wait, I think people like that. Like when I show up like this, Especially like I have a private account now.

Aubrey Westlund 00:17:35  And so like I’ll show up and just like, share whatever I’m working on and like, often, like, I don’t look perfect. Like, I look nice today because I wash my hair for you, but like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:17:48  Thank you so much. Yeah.

Aubrey Westlund 00:17:50  You’re welcome. I think that, like, we overthink how we need to show up and like, people actually prefer to see us. Like, it’s kind of like with photography. Like they want to see someone who looks like them and like, yes, on our wedding day is like, we’re idealizing, like, we want to look like the most beautiful girl ever. But the rest of the time, like, we don’t look like that, we want to just look like ourselves, right? And so, like, if we see someone that reminds us of ourselves, like, that’s a good thing. That’s almost like going to create a connection.

Jaiden Robinson 00:18:26  So how do you feel like showing up like that has helped you like improve your business as far as like sales and clients and stuff like that.

Aubrey Westlund 00:18:34  I think that it just helps people connect with me. I will like, be honest. I do still kind of have a hard time because I like went viral a few times this year. Yeah you.

Jaiden Robinson 00:18:46  Did.

Aubrey Westlund 00:18:47  And that has like brought up all these feelings in me that I’m working through. And, you know, like people will say like, well, you’re not going to go viral until you’re ready or like, your business isn’t going to grow until like, you’re ready to, like, hold that space, like until you have grown to like that capacity. And that is so true because, like, as soon as you grow, it’s gonna bring in, like, all these other problems, like, I almost like, loved my community, my following more when I was like under 10,000 because it’s like then it feels like safe and cozy and it’s like, you know, these people. And now I’ve, I’ve got like, I don’t know, 25,000 followers.

Jaiden Robinson 00:19:33  Oh my goodness that’s.

Aubrey Westlund 00:19:34  And yeah, it’s cool.

Aubrey Westlund 00:19:36  But I also feels like like I can’t keep up with my DMs and like, that makes people angry. I miss a lot of comments like people will just see a real and like comment, something mean and condescending, like without understanding me and like that, I think like that’s hard. Like it’s just hard to see and.

Jaiden Robinson 00:19:59  Like so.

Aubrey Westlund 00:20:00  Right about.

Jaiden Robinson 00:20:01  Like it’s so true. I don’t think your business will grow and you’re not going to go viral until, like, you’re ready and can handle that because you’re right. Like it does introduce a whole slew of new challenges in your business. Like, yeah, new mindset things, new systems things, new offer. Like everywhere you look it will shift your business and like so true. I have only gone viral like a couple times in. I’m still under five K, But I had something come up too where like, I knew I wasn’t going to go viral in my account. Wouldn’t blow up until I was, like, willing to let that happen.

Jaiden Robinson 00:20:37  So then finally I let it happen. And it did. And I doubled my followers in like, just, I think like a month or maybe two months. And then I was so scared to post. Yes, I was like, I’m terrified. Totally get that.

Aubrey Westlund 00:20:51  I love having my private account now because it feels so comfortable for me to, like, show up there. But I’m still like grappling with showing up on my like main account because yeah, it just like it’s this feeling of like this isn’t safe anymore, but like, yeah, I’m like learning, like, okay, I have to tell my nervous system basically that it like it is safe for me to be seen and however people perceive me are the things that I say like that’s on them. Like in a, in a way, I kind of like I’ve been telling myself, like, social media is just make believe until I like, intentionally decide like that. It’s real. So what I mean by that is like, if someone comments something rude on a post, like I can just block and delete them and then they don’t exist to me anymore.

Aubrey Westlund 00:21:47  But like, but like if someone keeps showing up in my DMs and then like we start having a conversation and I get to know them like, that’s real because I’m like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:21:57  Yeah, you’re totally.

Aubrey Westlund 00:21:59  Delusional, but like, it’s what you want to make it. Like, obviously there’s a point where like things can, I guess, become unsafe for you in real life and like, yeah, the things that you say and do could have consequences. But yeah, yeah, for the most part, it’s a lot of mindset work.

Jaiden Robinson 00:22:19  It is so much mindset work. Like I feel like all of social media is that way. But I think marketing too, like even in your emails, even in paid. I think it goes everywhere in marketing. But I feel like marketing is a mindset for sure. And like, it’s crazy because it is the part of your business that is like always changing. Like your offers may not change. Like you may have the same office you like. There’s so many things in your business that are just going to stay the same, but like the way you market is always changing and I feel like that can it just can mess with your head a little bit when you’re like, am I doing this right? Like things are changing faster than I am.

Jaiden Robinson 00:22:59  Like, right?

Aubrey Westlund 00:23:00  I kind of feel like I’m in that place right now where, like, I’m changing and like, I want my content to change and it’s like a little bit, I don’t know, it’s a little bit nerve wracking because like we mentioned, lazy girl marketing, like, you can figure out things that work and like do them over and over again.

Jaiden Robinson 00:23:23  Yeah.

Aubrey Westlund 00:23:24  But then like at some point it might not feel aligned anymore. And then it’s like, okay, we get to like change this up again. Let’s see how this goes.

Jaiden Robinson 00:23:34  It’s so funny because it’s so true. Like I got really comfortable with like my story sales strategy. And I basically like could use templates and like sell my offers constantly, every single week, every single day. But then like, I got bored of it and I started feeling icky about it. And then I was like, dang, that sucks because it was working really well, right? And like, the results were good, but like, I didn’t feel good, which to me like I rather I don’t care if it’s working.

Jaiden Robinson 00:24:03  I want to feel good about it. Exactly.

Aubrey Westlund 00:24:05  So that’s where I feel like I’m at now.

Jaiden Robinson 00:24:08  Yeah. And then you’re like, I want to be lazy, but I can’t. Yeah.

Aubrey Westlund 00:24:12  It’s like, okay, I kind of figured this out. Yeah. It’s so true. It’s so real.

Jaiden Robinson 00:24:18  Okay, that makes me actually want to talk a little bit about like, passive income, because that’s something you teach a lot about with stock photography. So like, yeah, let’s get real about passive income. What?

Aubrey Westlund 00:24:27  Let’s do it.

Jaiden Robinson 00:24:28  I’m curious about how much like you work versus like the passive side of it and what you’ve seen in other clients.

Aubrey Westlund 00:24:36  This is a fun topic because I feel like passive income has really blown up in the past few years, at least online. I feel like it has. And there’s so much misinformation and like it is a sexy thing to have passive income. And I think everyone should have some form of passive income in your business. But I’ve always said like passive income requires an initial time or money investment, right? Like either you’re investing in hiring someone to market your course for you, or you’re investing like in stocks where your money can grow or, you know, something like that.

Aubrey Westlund 00:25:21  It’s like one of those two things usually, or you’re investing your time. So like with stock photography, it’s a big investment of your time upfront. But like it actually is like I mean if you take like, okay, I have this collection of photos, I’m going to upload them, I’m going to do all the work to keyword and like prepare and submit them to my agency. Once they’re accepted by your agency, the work part is done. But then like if you want to really succeed with stock photography, you need a large portfolio.

Jaiden Robinson 00:25:56  Yeah.

Aubrey Westlund 00:25:56  And so every time I upload new photos, I feel like an older photo will sell. And it’s like that, like bumps your photos up in their like, search. And it just gives your photos more opportunities to be seen. So it’s like I’m still doing work, but it’s almost like that work multiplies and multiplies and multiplies.

Jaiden Robinson 00:26:21  Yeah, that makes sense.

Aubrey Westlund 00:26:22  Like I do believe that it is passive income, but at the same time, it’s like if you want to make more money, like you’re going to have to continue putting in that effort.

Aubrey Westlund 00:26:34  Yeah. So yeah, I think but like when it comes to like courses and digital products, like I don’t even know if I would call that passive anymore.

Jaiden Robinson 00:26:44  Like, yeah, it’s.

Aubrey Westlund 00:26:46  More like your efforts are multiplied. Yeah.

Jaiden Robinson 00:26:49  It’s like honestly more like group coaching where like it is like a one to many offer.

Aubrey Westlund 00:26:57  Yes.

Jaiden Robinson 00:26:58  Less so just like totally passive because yeah, like your courses have to be updated pretty much constantly and you’re always in there like asking for testimonials, like chatting with people, like trying to make it better all the time. And then, yeah, you’re not just doing nothing.

Aubrey Westlund 00:27:17  At one point I thought I wanted to like have many courses. And then this past year I decided to just focus on Stock Photography Academy because like, in order for me to actually feel good about selling that course, I need to be constantly updating it. I need to constantly be making it better. And like it’s an industry where things are always changing. Like now we have I like you can license I photos, so like I’m the person like I feel like it’s my responsibility to be like, okay, students, like I’m going to try this and report back to you.

Aubrey Westlund 00:27:56  And so like, that’s what I’ve been doing all summer. Yeah, I took a course on Midjourney and I’ve been like testing out all these different ways to use it. And like as a photographer and someone who’s been doing stock, like, how can I use this for market research and like, do I really think, like I want to also see like how popular are these photos? Like, do people actually want to buy AI stock photos and like, yeah, what type of customer wants to buy AI stock photos? So like that’s a lot of work for me to just sell one course.

Jaiden Robinson 00:28:30  Yeah. That okay. That makes me go into another question I had. And it’s like, how much time are you spending on your business versus like in your business because it’s different for everyone. I spend a lot of time working, like in my business, with my clients, one on one, blah, blah, blah, and not a lot of time working on it. Like, I’m not doing what you’re doing, like trying and new software and like trying to figure that out for me.

Jaiden Robinson 00:28:56  I’m not doing that. But you’re kind of like it almost seems like opposite. I would say you’re doing a lot more like on it because you are like, you have to do all this research and like be the trailblazer and like, figure it out. You’re not working with like a client necessarily. You’re working on like building out the offer that will come in the future.

Aubrey Westlund 00:29:14  Exactly. And almost just like, I guess, like I for a few years, I really thought that I would be doing like higher ticket offers and like working more one on one with people. And now I’m realizing, like my offer is really more of like the one to many and like making like my course is so full of like trainings and like more courses, like I’ll give my course students like a new course every quarter, like I made a new course that has to do with like travel stock photography. And I’m like, I feel like since I like, I have like an academy, like they need to get this to like to me, it’s like I’m just constantly like building up the resources that they get because I want to give them the best chance to succeed.

Aubrey Westlund 00:30:08  Yeah. And I don’t really know that. Like, that’s the best. like decision monetarily for my business, but to me like it feels more in integrity and it feels like I. I’ve always wanted to be a teacher, like since I was in kindergarten. Like, that was like my career goal all through high school. And so it feels kind of cool that like, now I am a teacher on my own terms. And so, like, I don’t really take that lightly. Like, I love marketing my courses, but at the same time, like I still want my courses to be like my main focus. Yeah, like my educational content. Like I don’t want to get caught up in just like all the marketing fun stuff about it.

Jaiden Robinson 00:30:56  Yeah. And like, I feel like this is one thing that’s hard about social media, I feel like is there’s so many coaches that are like, you need your high ticket offer, you need your mid ticket offer, you need your low ticket offer.

Jaiden Robinson 00:31:06  You’re like, yeah, like all these different things. And like I took a really extensive social media course when I first started and they basically gave you the recipe, right? They said, do exactly this, and then you’ll book clients that are $2,500 a month. You only need four of them happily ever after, right? Right. But then I was in it and I was like, ain’t no way I’m charging someone $2,500. I can’t deliver $2,500 worth of results for these people. And it might be similar for you, like with stock photography where like, it doesn’t make sense for you to charge someone $1,500 a month to work one on one with you because like, for them to get an ROI on that is going to take 12, 24 months. You know, like it doesn’t make sense. And so I think that’s where like, you have to ask yourself and look inside your own business and say like, does this make sense for me? Or does it make more sense for me to cut down the information I’m giving, let it be a lower ticket offer, whatever, so that people can actually get that ROI that they want instead of just following the recipe of the coach.

Aubrey Westlund 00:32:17  Right? Yeah, and I’ve been playing around with that too, because like stock photography academy, it’s like $1,000. So, you know, I wouldn’t say that’s like high ticket, but it’s definitely an investment for people. And like you said, it’s going to take them longer to get that ROI. But then I’ve also been playing around with like lower ticket offers. So like I mentioned that travel photography course. Like I sell that separately. So perfect. That’s where I’m just like I’m playing around with. Like I want people to be able to access this information without like having to, you know, like get a credit card to put it on their credit card. But at the same time, like for people that do want to make that investment and like go all in, that’s where I’m like, okay, I want to give you like, everything that I can to help you succeed. Yeah, but it’s. I have to tell you, I actually did this high ticket mastermind where it was like building these, like, $20,000 offers.

Aubrey Westlund 00:33:19  And it was the worst investment I ever made for myself. No, because it just was like, I think sometimes, like, we see these coaches in these programs and like, they’re aspirational and we think like, if we invest this money, then like we can be like them and like, this is what we need to get to that level. But then, like something I realized is like, this isn’t the type of work that I want to be doing. And like, I didn’t feel comfortable with, like the sales tactics that they taught. And like you said, I didn’t feel like the ROI was really there. So that yeah, that was like, I know you’re gonna probably ask me about like, a regret. Yeah. So I think that’s like a good thing to bring up is just that, like, not every strategy is for you and for your business.

Jaiden Robinson 00:34:15  It’s so real. And like that pressure is just so there. Like, I get that pressure all the time of like you need a higher ticket offer, you need a higher ticket offer.

Jaiden Robinson 00:34:23  And like I do have a couple clients that are $2,500 a month, but they’re clients that like, I am certainly getting them that ROI and they have the money to spend on it. You know, I didn’t feel comfortable asking these mid-level businesses like, I know people on the internet want to be like, I’m a multimillionaire, but asking these honestly, not that big of businesses to spend that kind of money on social media. I was like, that’s probably all your profit, you know, that you’re spending on me as a social media manager. And there’s other ways I can serve you that are more beneficial. I’m going to give you a better ROI right then that. So like, why am I following someone else’s plan for me?

Aubrey Westlund 00:35:09  I think like those plants work when you’re not working with like smaller entrepreneurs and small businesses. But at the same time, I think a lot of us who are creative and our like small business owners, like those are the people that we want to work with. And so it’s just almost like that framework doesn’t work with that type of business.

Aubrey Westlund 00:35:31  Like if you want to work with corporate clients or like, you know, like the coaches that say they make millions of dollars a year, like that’s the type of client that you should be speaking to and like creating your offers for.

Jaiden Robinson 00:35:46  Yeah. And like I just feel like the marketing is so like different. Like if you want to work with like corporate people, it’s like you’re probably going to need to go to LinkedIn. Like you’re not really going to get that on Instagram. Like those people are on Instagram. Yeah, but not to find you. They’re on there to, like, enjoy their time off, you know.

Aubrey Westlund 00:36:06  Like looking at skincare routines and stuff like that.

Jaiden Robinson 00:36:10  Yeah. Like they’re not looking for you. So I think it just shifts things. But yeah, that is super interesting. And I think passive income is really buzzy. And I think you just have to be like honest with yourself about like what your expectations are for that. And really the time that goes into it, especially like for you, you, you’re spending a lot of time getting those offers going.

Jaiden Robinson 00:36:33  I mean.

Aubrey Westlund 00:36:33  I work like Monday through Wednesday, I probably only work four hours a day and then like Thursday, Friday I’ll work probably like 6 to 8 hours. And then sometimes I work on the weekends. Like it’s all kind of based on my daughter’s schedule because I’m also a single mom now. So like, I have to work around all that. And what’s almost better than like just receiving passive income is like having that flexibility. So I built a lot of that flexibility into my business. Like, I only schedule live calls on days when she’s not going to be at home. Like I’m not going to cancel a call because like, my daughter’s, you know, needs my attention or something. So, like, I have to work around that. And I built a business that can do that, which I love.

Jaiden Robinson 00:37:23  That’s like a major lazy girl hack. It’s like, make your life work for you, you know, so that you’re not having to do those things.

Aubrey Westlund 00:37:32  And like, I love coaching, but I actually stopped doing it because it just didn’t feel like aligned right now in my life.

Aubrey Westlund 00:37:39  Yeah. So like sometimes you might have to take offers off the table for a little while and then you can bring them back. But at the same time, like I think with my messaging and like with passive income, I’d like to say that like it can give you choices, right? Like it gives you options and freedom. And I’m not necessarily like preaching that people should get passive income so that they could just like go travel the world and like be like quote unquote lazy and like, lay on the couch all day. Like for me, it’s it’s like if I have passive income, then, you know, there’s times where, like, kids can be sick and home from school for like 2 or 3 weeks. Yeah. And like, there’s not a lot of work that can happen during that time. And like, I don’t really feel like I have the option to go out and get a full time job. Like I think that would be pretty impossible for me. And so like passive income just like creates this room for me.

Aubrey Westlund 00:38:42  Like if I don’t like, have the time or capacity to, like put out an offer next month, I don’t have to worry about that as much because I have like my stock photo income. And even now, like I love doing payment plans for my course because that kind of feels more like passive income to me.

Jaiden Robinson 00:39:00  Yes, it totally.

Aubrey Westlund 00:39:01  Doesn’t like moving to a place where I’m going to do two launches a year for my course. And like my thought is I’m going to go all in on those launches and like the month after, we’re going to do like a full month of live calls, and then each month after I’ll do like a coaching call or something. But like, it definitely kind of can fizzle out after that point, like not fizzle out, but like the work gets less and less until I do the next launch. So like to me, two times a year feels really good and like doable. Gives me enough time to like, write out my full email sequence for my launch and like get my audience ready.

Aubrey Westlund 00:39:41  But if I was like launching a new course every month, like, there’s just I just couldn’t do that. Couldn’t. Yeah, I would not fit my lifestyle. So yeah, I love your.

Jaiden Robinson 00:39:51  Focus on like the flexibility because that’s truly what it’s about. Like, I think people can get caught up in the number, like even me too. I see people’s like income claims and I’m like, dang, that would be so nice. Like hello down payment on a house, you know? But it’s really deeper than that. And it is like the flexibility and the freedom to take time off when you need to, like for your daughter or for me, like if I want to go on a trip or whatever, I can do that. And I don’t have to work every single.

Aubrey Westlund 00:40:20  Day, even like for someone like you, like if you have a client who’s like a nightmare client, it’s nice if you have like the extra income, like to pad that. So say you just decide, like for your own peace, you need to let this client go.

Aubrey Westlund 00:40:37  Like, I know a lot of people who will hold on to people like that, even though it’s like destroying them and destroying their business. Yeah, it’s like you have a little passive income stream. Same with photographers. Like we always know when there’s like that red flag client that’s going to make our life miserable and to be able to, like, stand in your worth and say like, I don’t think this is a good fit for me. I’m sorry. And like to be able to turn down that income is a huge deal. Especially like, I feel like a lot of us are like service providers. We’re like, always chasing the next client. Yeah. Like it’s rare. Especially like right now. It’s rare to not be chasing more clients. Yeah. So to be able to like, get.

Jaiden Robinson 00:41:26  And that’s so exhausting.

Aubrey Westlund 00:41:28  It is. Yeah. And to like at least be able to give yourself the option. Yeah. Is a gift.

Jaiden Robinson 00:41:35  I love that so much. My one last question for you is if you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be?

Aubrey Westlund 00:41:46  I think that this is something great about getting older is that you really just care less and less what people think about you.

Aubrey Westlund 00:41:54  I wish there could have been a way to, like, teach my younger self that. Yeah, and also, like, not to get married at 23.

Jaiden Robinson 00:42:05  to Shay. Except I got married when I was 18. Mistake. Mistake was made.

Aubrey Westlund 00:42:12  Yeah. Like romanticizing that is just not it. So I wish I could have. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Jaiden Robinson 00:42:20  But with you on that. With you on that. But what do you do? Yeah. We didn’t know that was really cliche.

Aubrey Westlund 00:42:27  Like, that was a really cliche answer.

Jaiden Robinson 00:42:30  No, that was no. Don’t be sorry. That’s perfect. I just love to hear, like, you know, what you would tell yourself. And there are definitely people listening to this that could potentially make those mistakes. And maybe they won’t when they hear your story.

Aubrey Westlund 00:42:44  So yeah, I guess, like just to elaborate on my first answer of like, not caring what other people think about you, like I actually I had to, like, let go of some of those people in my life that were making me overthink that.

Aubrey Westlund 00:42:59  And so that is something that, like I could tell myself is like, yeah, like all these people, they’re not lifting you up. They’re just like holding you back.

Jaiden Robinson 00:43:09  And like, hey, did you know you can remove a follower? Like, if you don’t, if you don’t want them to see your stuff, like you can click Remove Follower. Yeah.

Aubrey Westlund 00:43:19  Or block them from your stories.

Jaiden Robinson 00:43:21  Yeah. Yeah, I’ve definitely done that. Blocked people from my stories that I’m just like seeing your face there stresses me out.

Aubrey Westlund 00:43:28  Exactly. It’s not that like I don’t like them or. Yeah, it’s like if someone makes me overthink what I want to post, then I just need to remove them.

Jaiden Robinson 00:43:37  Yeah. Oh, so agree with that. And you.

Aubrey Westlund 00:43:41  It’s just me. It’s not that, but.

Jaiden Robinson 00:43:43  No, it’s like personal for sure. It’s not about them at all. But like, if you’re moving them helps you then do it like no shame. Yeah. I love that so much.

Jaiden Robinson 00:43:54  Thank you so much for being here and chatting with us about your journey. And I loved everything we talked about. I hope it’s really useful for the people listening. I know it will be, but thank you so much.

Aubrey Westlund 00:44:05  Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is great.

Jaiden Robinson 00:44:10  First, I want to say thank you so much for being here and listening to my podcast. It means the world to me, and I just appreciate this community more than you could ever know. If you love this episode or a previous episode that you’ve listened to, go ahead and head to the leave a review link in the show notes and leave us a review. We would really appreciate it and we’re so glad that you’re here. Thank you.