Jaiden Robinson 00:00:09  Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Rave Social Podcast. I’m your host, Jaiden, and today we have Cass. Cass is incredible. Thanks for being here.

Cassandra Skyway 00:00:21  Thanks for having me. This is going to be a blast.

Jaiden Robinson 00:00:24  It’s my first time recording, like in person with someone saying, oh, what’s going on?

Cassandra Skyway 00:00:31  It’s kind of scary. Yeah, but also thrilling. I know it’s.

Jaiden Robinson 00:00:34  Going to be so fun. Yeah. but just a little info on cast. She’s awesome. She’s also a social media manager. We met through the gram, and now I love her. And she’s my best.

Cassandra Skyway 00:00:45  And I love you and you’re my bestie.

Jaiden Robinson 00:00:47  And we work together on a couple accounts and she’s just freaking the best there is. So today we’re going to talk about something really scary. And that is social media management is dead. And yes, that title is a little clickbaity, but it’s true. There’s been some big changes in the social media like world, and we’re just going to address them and help you find, like figure out what kind or what level of social media management is the best for you.

Cassandra Skyway 00:01:17  Great.

Jaiden Robinson 00:01:18  Let’s do it.

Cassandra Skyway 00:01:19  We’re gonna help you find inner peace, inner peace and happiness with your social media.

Jaiden Robinson 00:01:24  Yes, exactly.

Cassandra Skyway 00:01:26  Exactly. Jaiden’s like, I wish I didn’t invite you here.

Jaiden Robinson 00:01:30  Not at all. okay, so first let’s chat about, like, what’s maybe, like one of the major changes or shifts you’ve seen on social media recently. Like as far as social media management goes, like what is changing?

Cassandra Skyway 00:01:45  Okay. Can I give a quick disclaimer? Yeah, great. Number one, I’m feeling a little bit fiery today. Like for real. And also like one thing about me is I’ve been on a handful of podcasts at this point and I’ve never listened to a single one afterwards. And so if I say something like kooky, I will never know. So just that and then also. Also, I just feel like I got to say. With any of this stuff, it’s like. Choose your own adventure. Like we’re going to say what we’re going to say from a place of a lot of experience.

Cassandra Skyway 00:02:25  Yeah. But ultimately, I think, like what really gets me revved up is like, what you’re going to learn the most doing is just going out there and doing it. So like, listen to this podcast. don’t let it, like, get you riled up or think you’re doing something wrong and then just like, go out there and start practicing and doing something and then you’ll learn that way. Yeah.

Jaiden Robinson 00:02:47  And I think, like with everything, there’s just always going to be nuance. So like we may say this is how it is. And maybe like my experience is different from that. And that’s totally fine and that’s fine. It’s just nuance. And I think, I think what is happening with social media is that there was like a phase that we went through where social media management could be as simple as someone just like posting some graphics for you every few days. And like that literally did work. Like, right? I did it for a client and it worked and it got results and but now I think like the industry, everyone’s industries doesn’t matter if you’re a photographer or social media manager, whatever you are, it’s saturated.

Jaiden Robinson 00:03:32  And what is differentiating people is a personal brand and your personal brand. It’s really hard for someone to just like, make and post graphics for you and have that work, right, you know?

Cassandra Skyway 00:03:45  Totally. I think I was thinking today, like who was my first client and when that was 2015. Oh my God, yeah. In Australia I took over this yoga studio’s, social media, and I did it in exchange for a free pass to the studio. And I had no idea what I was doing. But I remember thinking, I think that I can do, I think I can do, I can make some improvements. Yeah. Whatever’s going on here. Yeah. So I’m just going to go for it. It’ll be good either way. And yeah, it literally was just I remember my thought at the time was this needs to be prettier. This isn’t aesthetic. And these people don’t realize that. But I understand that and I have an eye for that. So I’m just going to help them make this feed prettier.

Cassandra Skyway 00:04:33  And that was like first stop. Number one. I’ve got to make.

Jaiden Robinson 00:04:36  The grid look.

Cassandra Skyway 00:04:38  Pretty, right? I was like, I gotta make this look prettier. And once I’ve done that, we’ll go from there. And I remember being, like proud a few weeks into it with like I would scroll down and be like, this is what it looked like, and this is what it looked like now.

Jaiden Robinson 00:04:52  Yeah.

Cassandra Skyway 00:04:52  And I was like, wow, I’ve made it. Yeah, I’m really gifted at this.

Jaiden Robinson 00:04:58  And you were. You were.

Cassandra Skyway 00:05:02  Thank you.

Jaiden Robinson 00:05:02  That’s killing me. But yeah, I you’re exactly right. It was like aesthetics. It was just I want someone to land on my Instagram page, and all the colors are cohesive. And every photo was light, dark, light, dark, like that kind of a vibe. And I was always, like, jealous of accounts when I would go to them and they would look like that because that is so not me. Like I am not aesthetic.

Jaiden Robinson 00:05:24  Like you should see my literal office right now. I don’t have that naturally.

Cassandra Skyway 00:05:28  So okay, first off, that’s not true.

Jaiden Robinson 00:05:31  But I like I don’t know, I don’t have that, at least for myself. Like, oh my god, for my clients, I can do it. But for myself, like I just struggled so hard with that. So I’d be jealous of it. And now I see people like their main way that they’re selling themselves on Instagram, especially social media managers, is showing those like, this is the grid before, this is grid after. And I’m like that literally like it doesn’t matter. It’s so sad. But it’s true. Like it doesn’t matter.

Cassandra Skyway 00:05:57  Right? And it matters. It matters to some people. And there’s there’s someone for everyone. But it’s like so it’s not that like those people aren’t going to get clients, but it’s just that, like in the grand scheme of things, if you really are trying to grow a community and you’re trying to, really like stick with people, as are consuming so much social media.

Cassandra Skyway 00:06:20  Yeah, a pretty grid usually isn’t going to do it for you anymore.

Jaiden Robinson 00:06:24  No.

Cassandra Skyway 00:06:25  And especially with sales, like if you’re wanting your if you’re wanting your social media to like, push you in the direction of more sales, it’s not necessarily a sales channel anymore. But if you want that, the pretty graphics typically aren’t going to do a whole lot.

Jaiden Robinson 00:06:42  No, I think like what I tell my clients is like when they like a great it’s important to a degree. Like I said, you don’t want like mismatch text. You want like you want your brand to be there, but it’s not the top priority anymore. Because really, people are only going to see your grade the very first time that they click on your profile, like, and then never again. Yeah. So it’s just not like that big of a deal, right? And like you said too, it’s like if you it depends on what you want out of social media. Like if you just want to be that pretty grid, that’s fine.

Jaiden Robinson 00:07:18  But if you’re wanting like the deeper results, like a strong community, a strong personal brand, like sales, all of that, I just wouldn’t waste your energy. Like I wouldn’t spend energy curating that. Right?

Cassandra Skyway 00:07:29  It’s not like, oh, like, let’s just forego things looking pretty and nice because of course, like, you want this, like brand awareness. That’s something that I just talked to one of my clients about because the content was good, but it was, like you said, like mismatched texts, like various colors that like, didn’t match their website or match these other parts of their brand, like their brick and mortar space and stuff like that. So like, of course that was a conversation that we had, because you still want people, like you said to scroll and know, like, oh, that’s this account as they’re scrolling, but it’s like not the top priority because also you want to find new people. That’s everyone’s goal, right? Like I want to find new people.

Cassandra Skyway 00:08:09  I want to find new followers. And if you’re just prioritizing something looking pretty, that’s usually not going to do it.

Jaiden Robinson 00:08:16  No, it’s just there’s too much to consume. That something being pretty by itself is not going to get you where you want to go. Right?

Cassandra Skyway 00:08:25  It’s not going to. It’s it might. Yeah. It’s not necessarily going to push you in the direction of like growing your audience or getting new followers because that’s as they’re scrolling and you have I forget what it is, you know, 0.0001 second literally.

Jaiden Robinson 00:08:40  To like, no seconds, right.

Cassandra Skyway 00:08:42  Zero seconds. You have negative seconds to like, hook somebody, you know, like, what’s going to hook somebody is like a hook.

Jaiden Robinson 00:08:49  Yeah, like a text hook or. Yeah, like a visual hook. Not in, like, a pretty graphic kind of a way, but like, what are you moving like, is your body moving? Is your head moving like, are your hands moving? That kind of stuff is more like a hook than just like a pretty like landscape.

Jaiden Robinson 00:09:04  Right? Background.

Cassandra Skyway 00:09:05  Right. Do you have like a crazy facial expression? Are you like, doing something interesting that people are like, well, what what are they doing exactly? yeah, those kinds of things for sure. Are you telling a story like that?

Jaiden Robinson 00:09:18  Yeah. Like, how are you engaging with people? Which, that also brings me to, like, back a little bit to, like, social media management, like that community building. And the personal brand has to come through some way. And if you’re completely outsourcing everything and like, not, you’re not hands on whatsoever with your content, you’re just sending it through a social media manager and like, you barely even review it. That content is just like, it doesn’t matter how good the social media manager is, it’s not going to land with your audience simply because, like your energy and your voice never got like, put into it. Like, I try to learn my clients voices and I change the way I talk depending on what client it is.

Jaiden Robinson 00:10:03  But at the end of the day, like, I really need them to go review it and be like, oh, I would never say obsessed. I’m going to take that word out because it’s those little things that, like, your audience is used to. And yeah, like if you just completely our hands off with it, like they can feel that energy of like, you’re not actually there anymore. It’s just someone else doing it for you.

Cassandra Skyway 00:10:24  Totally. Like it needs to. Yes, this is perfect because this title, like social media management is dead. Which, by the way, let’s just say like SM because that’s like a lot of yeah.

Jaiden Robinson 00:10:35  So many words.

Cassandra Skyway 00:10:36  Yeah, it’s a lot happening. But like yeah, it’s clickbait. And also like it’s not to say that like social media management, SM is not still valuable because it is still highly valuable, but in a different way. And it’s like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:10:50  Shifted.

Cassandra Skyway 00:10:50  Right? It’s shifted a lot. You can’t fully just remove yourself from the process anymore if you want the best results.

Jaiden Robinson 00:10:59  Exactly.

Cassandra Skyway 00:11:00  And so the nuance.

Jaiden Robinson 00:11:02  Is it’s like, okay, well, if you don’t care about the community, the personal brand or whatever, like just being completely hands off and hiring a social media manager is gonna work for you. But I just like, I don’t feel like that’s who’s listening to this podcast or like, who follows you and I. I feel like those people are people who are like, no, I’m like hungry for growth. Like, I want the community. I want the personal brand for whatever reasons. And in that case, like, I think social media managers should be prepared to tell people like those types of clients that like being hands off isn’t going to work. Like you just have to be honest about it almost, you know? And then I think that people who are looking to hire a social media manager or social media help should be like open to the idea that, like, they’re not just going to it’s not going to be taken off your plate completely, right? Yes.

Jaiden Robinson 00:11:54  It’s going to be taken off your plate significantly for sure, and you’re going to get better results because you’re dealing with someone who’s like an expert in a strategist and knows what’s going on. Right? But if you just sit back like, those results won’t be what you want them to.

Cassandra Skyway 00:12:08  Be, right? It’s like 100% more of a team effort now, for sure.

Jaiden Robinson 00:12:13  I love anyways, right?

Cassandra Skyway 00:12:14  I think it’s so fun working.

Jaiden Robinson 00:12:15  In a vacuum. No, I don’t either.

Cassandra Skyway 00:12:17  And I’m like, I need, I need yeah, this like dialogue to like just make things better. And yeah, there’s just like these little nuanced things that your followers pick up on. and for example, I had this client and I’ve worked with her for a long time, and I’m obsessed with her, but I was calling her followers. What was I saying? I think I was calling them dawgs like DAWGS, because that’s just something that I’d swear I’ve heard her say before. And that’s very like her personality to, like, be calling people that.

Cassandra Skyway 00:12:56  And so I was like using that verbiage in her, in her content. And then one day, like months into that, she was like, hey, I actually don’t use the word dogs. And I’m like, oh my gosh, are you serious? And so she was like, are you serious?

Jaiden Robinson 00:13:13  Yeah.

Cassandra Skyway 00:13:13  I was like, oh, like, what should I be calling them instead? She’s like, you can say like pals. I’m like, okay, so now that’s how I refer to them as like pals. But it’s just so funny because it’s these, like, little detailed things. And that’s why, you know, you have a social media manager that that knows what they’re doing, with all these other pieces, they know the management, they know social media like tips and tricks. They know how to make things perform well. Yeah, they know how to write. They know how to write a good hook. Yes, they know how to like mark your offer or tell your story, etc. but you’re the other part of that equation.

Cassandra Skyway 00:13:52  And without you, we don’t know what word you’re calling people. We don’t know that you’re calling people pals instead of dogs. And I would say like doggies, like my dog is. So anyway, there’s just like little things like that that you don’t know. And especially with personal brands. this is important. And even product based brands, like other kinds of brands, I think every brand, this is like just my hot take. I think every brand should be personifying no matter what.

Jaiden Robinson 00:14:20  Oh, 100% like like I was saying, every industry is so saturated and you can look at that and be like, oh, I’m never going to be successful. Like it’s so saturated. Or you can look at that and be like, what differentiates me? And in a lot of industries, there’s not a big, huge differentiation, right? Let’s be so honest. There’s not. It’s like I do the same thing. Like I have the same deliverables, right? But I am different. My personality is what makes me different.

Jaiden Robinson 00:14:46  And like you want people to work with you because of your personality, because those are the kind of people that, like, aren’t going to be aren’t going to fire you if you get in an accident and need to take a couple days off. Right. Those are the people who are going to understand and genuinely care about you and want to be your client. Where? As if you’re not personified. Like what even are you? I feel like it makes you like, not human. And then they’re just like, you’re just a business, right? And they’re going to treat you just like a business, right? Yeah, like a person.

Cassandra Skyway 00:15:18  Right. If you’re like, personifying your brand. Which means that, like, you’re showing up with your personality and your mannerisms and the words that you use and the energy that you have when you’re engaging and working with clients and like, you’re going to get the clients that are meant for you, and it will just make everything so much easier. So or like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:15:35  The easiest way to differentiate yourself, like being yourself right is the easiest way to be different.

Cassandra Skyway 00:15:43  So it turns out that that’s the key to life. Be yourself. Be yourself.

Jaiden Robinson 00:15:49  Who would have.

Cassandra Skyway 00:15:49  Known? Who would have known?

Jaiden Robinson 00:15:52  It’s true. Okay, then I have this question for you. What is. What do you feel like is making brands impersonal? Because I feel like some brands are trying to be personal, but they’re not quite hitting it. And it’s making it actually like a little bit more impersonal for me. I feel like it’s many chat.

Cassandra Skyway 00:16:12  Okay.

Jaiden Robinson 00:16:13  I feel like money chat is kind of making like people will be so so, so so, so personal until they grow like a certain level of following and then they start using like many chat because they can’t manage the comments or whatever it is. And then like they take an exit to impersonal town, I don’t know.

Cassandra Skyway 00:16:32  Honestly, I know what you mean. I feel like, Yeah, it makes it feel like you’re a robot.

Cassandra Skyway 00:16:40  And it’s not to say that it can’t be a helpful tool at times. Totally. I think there are instances where it really makes sense. There are like, there are a few Amazon influencer girlies that I follow.

Jaiden Robinson 00:16:52  Oh, yeah.

Cassandra Skyway 00:16:53  And, you know, like, comment the word pants if you want.

Jaiden Robinson 00:16:56  Because they’re not going to be able to respond to everyone saying.

Cassandra Skyway 00:16:59  10,000 people saying they want.

Jaiden Robinson 00:17:01  Pants from. Right. Like that’s when I feel like that makes sense. And actually to me that feels personal. Yeah, it’s more so like, I don’t know. And straight up, this could just be me. Like, I don’t know. But I feel like it’s more so when people are like, get my freebie, like, comment this to get my freebie because I’m like, the freebie like is maybe it is a really valuable freebie, but like, oh shoot, I don’t know. It just doesn’t feel right. It’s because it feels like you’re sneaky. I don’t really know what I’m trying to say.

Cassandra Skyway 00:17:34  I know what you mean.

Jaiden Robinson 00:17:35  Okay.

Cassandra Skyway 00:17:36  Honestly, I don’t.

Jaiden Robinson 00:17:37  It’s like disjointed, I don’t know.

Cassandra Skyway 00:17:39  Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, but, like, what else? Because I’m sure that this is going to unlock some thoughts for me. Yeah, but what else do you think makes somebody impersonal? Right.

Jaiden Robinson 00:17:53  I think, like when there’s not a good balance of, like, new things versus like, what, you know, works on your page. And what I mean by this is like, you always like they’re on every account you’re going to like start to figure out like, oh, this message works. And it can be so easy to be like, okay, I’m just going to like repeat that message a million times. And also please do that. But then also like send us like give us a reel of just like your life. Like we don’t it doesn’t need to always be like salesy or business related. I don’t I don’t think.

Cassandra Skyway 00:18:25  No 100% I agree with you.

Cassandra Skyway 00:18:27  I think, it’s really easy for somebody to say they have like a real perform really well. Yeah. And, I don’t know, it’s a real of them doing a day in the life. Yeah. Going to the farmers market, for example.

Jaiden Robinson 00:18:42  That’s to say the rodeo. But the rodeo is also fun.

Cassandra Skyway 00:18:45  Okay, well, who’s going to a rodeo every day? I guess there are people, but it’s not me. It’s not me. But, I have been listening to Dixie chicks, though, and honestly, it’s such a vibe. Cowboy, take me away. You know, it’s so.

Jaiden Robinson 00:19:00  Good.

Cassandra Skyway 00:19:00  Anyway. But. Yeah. So say, like you’re doing a day in the life, going to the farmers market, and it just really pops off and like, it performs really well. There’s a lot of views, etc.. And so after that you’re like, well, I’ve never had content performed that well before. I’m going to make a trillion videos of me going to the farmers market, and I could do that because I go every week.

Cassandra Skyway 00:19:22  Yeah, in fact, there may be one coming. Stay tuned.

Jaiden Robinson 00:19:25  Stay tuned.

Cassandra Skyway 00:19:26  Big, big news. But like, you know. So then you’re just like, oh, I’m just going to like rinse and repeat this exact same thing. And I think you’re so right. It really starts to come across like there’s not life like behind. Yeah. Like the brands.

Jaiden Robinson 00:19:41  All know there’s more to you than.

Cassandra Skyway 00:19:43  That. We know that there’s more to you than that. We know that there’s like all these other parts to, you say, millions of other parts to you that like, we’re not getting because we’re only getting the farmer’s market hot takes. So like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:19:55  So like do your farmers market videos but then also do like another thing is how I feel. I’m like, don’t stop. Right? And like just because something feels repetitive to you doesn’t mean it feels repetitive to your audience. So I’d keep that in mind too. But like, feel free to do that repetitive content that you know, works, that performs well, whatever.

Jaiden Robinson 00:20:14  But then like give us some other stuff too.

Cassandra Skyway 00:20:17  Totally like and even even things that, you know, aren’t going to perform well. Yeah. Well, I won’t say like, just things that you’re like, this may not perform as well, right? Because you’re like, I know this kind of content really pops off. I don’t know if this thing will or, you know, I’ve tried this other piece of content before and it doesn’t pop off as much. Yeah. That’s okay. It can serve another purpose besides just performance.

Jaiden Robinson 00:20:39  It’s so real and so important. I like literally love that you said that because content has so many different purposes besides just like performance. Right. And like I feel like we tell people all the time, like, you know, your views don’t matter. Likes don’t equal sales, engagement doesn’t equal sales, whatever, blah blah blah. I’m like that. That is true. It is true. Like you’re going to have some content that gets zero comments, but that’s the content that people actually see and are like, oh, right.

Jaiden Robinson 00:21:12  She’s now at the top of my list for social media manager. Like, you don’t know that your audience is doing that. Totally. And they’re not leaving a comment like, right.

Cassandra Skyway 00:21:19  Like I had an offer. I did a close friends group and I had a couple reels perform really well, and it performed really well in the exact audience that I would think would want to join my close friends group. Yeah, like exactly. And I did not get a single person that like bought into that offer from those reels. In fact, like the people that ended up being in those in in that group are people that have just known me for a period of time. Yeah, they’ve grown to have. Yes, they’ve grown to have a level of trust in my content and, my point of view. And so those are the people that ended up there. It’s not like these other people that just I had some things perform really well and in the right space, but it doesn’t always convert, which is why, like, you shouldn’t always just be like, obsessed with your stuff going viral.

Cassandra Skyway 00:22:12  Because if you are, I will murder you. Just kidding. I’m going to block out. Not remember I said, but then later I’ll be like, I will murder you, I will do.

Jaiden Robinson 00:22:25  No, but it is true. And I get it because I had a couple reels go viral.

Cassandra Skyway 00:22:29  Like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:22:29  All around the same time. And then it’s really difficult to be like, I want that high again. Like, it literally is addicting. And you’re like, I want to go viral again. It’s so fun to go viral. But same thing, like the people I’ve converted are not people that I really gained during that time. Because what you also have to remember is that, yeah, you might go viral and double or triple your followers in a week, but then congratulations, you have a big, huge task. You have to nurture those people for months, right? You have to nurture them for a long time before they’re going to be coming, which is great.

Cassandra Skyway 00:23:07  You have the opportunity.

Cassandra Skyway 00:23:08  But yeah, it’s not like it’s just it doesn’t.

Jaiden Robinson 00:23:11  End there right in the number in the in the follow. You know, it’s like there’s a big process that goes right after that.

Cassandra Skyway 00:23:16  Totally. But anyway, I’ve just taken this down like a huge rabbit hole. And our original topic is what it like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:23:23  Did a thumbs up. Did you see that?

Cassandra Skyway 00:23:25  No.

Jaiden Robinson 00:23:27  Okay. Oh.

Cassandra Skyway 00:23:29  Why does it do that?

Jaiden Robinson 00:23:31  I don’t know, but I don’t know. But put on your face, which is weird.

Cassandra Skyway 00:23:33  Yeah, I don’t know. But yeah, I think, like, the reason why this podcast episode came to be. Yeah, is that I was listening to a piece of content where an agency was basically saying that social media manager should be more open and, willing to take part in these other, like, pieces of marketing. Yeah, yeah. And it really bothered me because every time that dead. I hope this is in the podcast. It really bothered me. It chopped me right up because I was so charmed by it, because I just if we if we go back to our initial conversation of where social media management began, it was literally just, I need to post to this page 2 or 3 times a week, and it needs to be a pretty graphic, and I need to make the feed look aesthetic.

Cassandra Skyway 00:24:33  And yeah, and that’s that’s kind of the goal. Maybe I’ll pop some details about the offers in the captions.

Jaiden Robinson 00:24:41  Crazy, crazy.

Cassandra Skyway 00:24:42  And so if you go back to that, it’s like, sure, at that point in time, social media managers would have had more time and space to, like, take on some of these other roles a little bit more, for sure, because.

Jaiden Robinson 00:24:57  That’s so simple.

Cassandra Skyway 00:24:58  Yeah, but because of how it’s grown. I mean, I remember when reels were first like a thing, and I remember thinking like, oh my gosh, how am I going to manage these accounts now that I have to do video? Like I remember just being like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:25:12  And you were right, because video does take longer.

Cassandra Skyway 00:25:15  Right? And I was like, oh my gosh, I’m going to die. I was like panicking and and like just also accepting like, no, this is a thing and it’s here and it’s not going away. And so I need to like figure it out.

Cassandra Skyway 00:25:27  Yeah. But even that transition alone from photo to video was huge. Huge. If I have to like when I edit a reel that can take me forever, depending on the type of content it can take me like honestly, 45 minutes, depending on how complex the content is.

Jaiden Robinson 00:25:44  And like how many times have you created a real for a client and then gone to like, post it and you’re like, I hate it, I need to start from zero. Oh my God. And you’re going to start from zero because you need to make sure your client has the best content, right.

Cassandra Skyway 00:25:55  Like so. There are times and like this is kind of embarrassing to admit because actually, you know what? It’s not. I feel like we get in this headspace of like, everything needs to be efficient and like, it’s taking me too long, so I must be doing it wrong. And I’m like, no, that’s not true. Sometimes it just takes you a long time because it just takes a long time.

Jaiden Robinson 00:26:15  This is a side tangent, but like we are, who are we pretending that social media management is not the most creative job like it is? Oh, photo video copywriting. Anything that has to do with technology. Human psychology. Sales. Like human.

Cassandra Skyway 00:26:38  Psychology. That’s a huge piece.

Jaiden Robinson 00:26:40  So many things that we’re managing. And all of those are really creative processes. They’re not numbers, they’re not logical. They’re not in a spreadsheet. Right. And like that’s what’s crazy to me is we it doesn’t feel like we recognize that because you would never like rush a painter to finish painting their painting.

Cassandra Skyway 00:26:57  Like that’s. So you would.

Jaiden Robinson 00:26:58  Never do that. But we rush ourselves constantly, and somehow we’re trying to make, like, creativity and efficiency. Like the same thing. Same thing, but like, they’re just not right. They’re just not.

Cassandra Skyway 00:27:10  Right. And so, yeah, like, of course you’ve got to do things in a timely manner so that your clients get the stuff that they need, and the posts go up when they need to go up at the same time.

Cassandra Skyway 00:27:19  Sometimes it just takes way longer than you think it’s going to, and there have been so many times that I upload something to Instagram and it’s blurry. The text magically gets removed. Like what? The audio randomly like sounds like shit. And I’m like, what is happening? And so yeah, you go back to the drawing board and you start the entire thing over again, and so or you get a piece of content and for some reason it’s Jaiden and I had this big conversation a couple of weeks ago because I was getting content that was super blurry. So it’s like.

Jaiden Robinson 00:27:49  How do we fix.

Cassandra Skyway 00:27:50  It? Or like, how do I fix it? How do I work with this? Like like what happens? Yeah. What’s the settings on the camera? So it’s just it’s such a big process. It really is. And so just like keeping that in mind that sometimes it just takes a while because it just takes a while and that’s just that. So what I’m trying to say is like it used to be much easier and much faster.

Cassandra Skyway 00:28:10  Since then, we’ve taken on this, like huge role of all these other pieces that you just mentioned. And not only that, but we’re working with video most of the time now. And so because of that, it’s a much more time consuming process. And I have a blast doing it, but it does take a long time, to create good content that you’re proud of, that you know, is going to do the best that it possibly can do. And so it’s just it’s a time consuming process. And then not only that, but as you mentioned before, there are more people on social media than ever before. But not only that, there are more people in social media that have ever been there before, and also more businesses using social media than have ever used social media before. Because at this point in time, and if you’re in this space and you probably are because you’re listening to this, it seems crazy to think that there are people just now who are starting to accept, like, okay, this is a part of running my business now, I do need to accept it, and I either need to find some kind of help or I need to learn it.

Cassandra Skyway 00:29:17  Yeah, and that’s just the reality. It’s a huge change in society. And so of course there are going to be people that are like, I really want to do it. I really don’t want to do it. Yeah. And finally I’m noticing like people that have resisted it for a long time, I mean, like my dad, he will listen to this so I can say things about him, but he owns a business and it’s been a business of my grandpa’s had since I was tiny. And just now he’s like, I probably should hire somebody to make my website not look like it’s from the year 2000. And I should probably get an Instagram. And I’m like, yeah, yeah, it won’t be me. I don’t work with family, but with my dad, really, I would pass away. He’s the best. I love him, but I.

Jaiden Robinson 00:30:01  Love my dad. He does not. He never gives me content. That’s also why social media management is dead. Because if you’re not working with brands who like straight up are going to give you the content you need, right? You cannot do your job right.

Jaiden Robinson 00:30:17  And honestly, that’s like one of the main reasons I switched my offers. Well, the first reason was I didn’t feel like social media management was the cost, what I was charging and the results I was giving people didn’t line up to me. And I was like, that’s because I shouldn’t be managing your account. You should be managing your account.

Cassandra Skyway 00:30:35  In a way of like the results that you were giving them honestly slayed. And well, they did slay.

Jaiden Robinson 00:30:40  But not to like my not to like to them. They were like, this is great. But to me I was like, I, I know that there’s a better way. Yeah. And so that’s kind of why I shifted my offer that way. But it was also because like I and this is probably my bad, was working with some brands that like would not give me content. Yeah I would outline exactly what I needed. They would never get it to me and then I would be like scrambling at the last second, like trying to use stock photo or video or like at the last minute, trying to like, fix it something.

Cassandra Skyway 00:31:10  Together because.

Jaiden Robinson 00:31:11  They didn’t give me what I needed. And I was like, that is traumatic, and I do not want to do that. That is not fun for me at all.

Cassandra Skyway 00:31:19  Right. Yeah, that’s a whole thing too, dad. Yeah.

Jaiden Robinson 00:31:22  Dad’s.

Cassandra Skyway 00:31:23  He might.

Jaiden Robinson 00:31:23  Be listening to the.

Cassandra Skyway 00:31:24  Dads. I know my mom does. Right. But, yeah, there’s just. There’s so many high genes, mom, but there’s just. Yeah, there’s so many, like, pieces. I don’t even know where I was going with that. But, yeah, there’s so many people just now that are like, yeah, this is actually like accepting this is important and I need to do it.

Jaiden Robinson 00:31:40  I feel like what we talked about about this specifically, like, what the agency was saying was that, like, things have gotten so like, niche, like there’s like a social media manager, a content creator, a videographer, a photographer, like a copywriter, a graphic designer, right? Instead of a social media manager, which I kind of vibe with, but also takes a lot more collaboration and a lot more time, like, you have to be a business that’s like really planning ahead and knows the next 3 or 6 months of your business to do to work with that many people.

Cassandra Skyway 00:32:20  Well, I think yeah, the one of the reasons why we’re doing this podcast is that social media has shifted so much to the point where, like you’re saying, there are so many like niche roles within what people perceive to be just social media management. And so what what social media managers are finding, at least what we’re finding is that, in order to fulfill all those roles and do a good job at all those roles, which I think most social media managers are pretty well versed in many of those things, especially if, you know, if you’re experienced, you’ve like worn all those hats for sure. So in order to like, perform all those things well, you and run a functioning business that supports you, your life, your goals and not being like completely exhausted. At the end of the day, you have to charge high rates. So you think about all these different pieces that you’re doing and how much time all of that takes. Just editing a video, like I said, can take me like 45 minutes an hour if I have to redo it longer.

Cassandra Skyway 00:33:21  Yeah. And so like if you’re doing all this things, your rates have got to be like boosted. Otherwise you’re exhausted. I mean, a few months ago I was tapped out at like the most clients that I could take on. And at that rate, looking at my income, my yearly income, I just thought to myself, like this, I’m exhausted. I am not performing like I want to be performing in my job, because I can’t handle the workload that I have. I can’t, and I am. Not only that, but like I am not making the kind of income that I have set out goals to make. And so, it just like, and money’s not everything, but money is your exchange for your time and energy that you’re giving. Totally. And you want it to feel even. And you want to. You want it to feel like, this like this daily practice that you put in hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of doing is like yielding the same return.

Cassandra Skyway 00:34:25  And so it’s that’s how it’s shifted in a lot of ways, because now people are at a place where, like I said, the rates need to go up, which if you’re a smaller business, that’s really hard.

Jaiden Robinson 00:34:38  And like I think it’s important to remember that, like social media managers are period. A luxury service like it is luxury to have a social media manager. It’s not just every business needs one and every business should have one. It’s like, that’s luxury. It takes an investment. It takes like an investment. I mean, in your time and your money, if you want to go in that direction and grow your business that way. Totally. And yeah, rates have to go up. I mean, I that’s what I was noticing is that like the rate I would have to charge someone to give them like what they need to be successful, right. Would have to be so high that I didn’t feel like I would feel comfortable even charging it, because I didn’t want that level of stress.

Jaiden Robinson 00:35:31  You know, if you’re charging someone ten K a month, you have to deliver ten K month results, right? And I was like, that does not feel comfortable to me. But what I do know works is me. I can write your copy. I can do your outlines, I can fill it in, I can get you to 80% and then you can do that other 20%. And the juice in the squeeze is going to line up right. What you’re investing in and the results you’re getting. Make sense. So like that’s the shift that I made in my business which there’s obviously more than one way. Right. You could do that for your business and whatever feels good for you. But that’s just what I noticed because I was like, I think people can just you can raise your rates all you want, but like, are you okay with the level of stress that’s going to give you?

Cassandra Skyway 00:36:13  And also like, what kind of people do you want to work with? Because the kind of brands that I love to work with, and I’ve found this through so much trial and error, is I love working with personal brands.

Cassandra Skyway 00:36:23  I love working with smaller businesses. I love working with hairstylists. Estheticians like these, these people that run these like smaller businesses. I.

Jaiden Robinson 00:36:33  Bet that are like successful, smaller businesses. Like, yeah, I’m with you. Those are like. And so.

Cassandra Skyway 00:36:39  Yeah, like, that’s so fun. And also like when you’re working with businesses like that, typically the budget is a little bit lower. It just makes sense. You don’t have like a 20 person team and you’re selling a product that you sell I don’t know that costs $100 and you sell 500 a day. Like that’s just like. So that’s where like, this trade off comes. And like you said, it is like a luxury. And I just that’s that’s where this like this content that I was listening to from this agency suggesting that social media managers needed to be open to doing more. Really made me angry because what?

Jaiden Robinson 00:37:19  Yeah. I mean, that just, like, made me have this, like, big realization of, like, okay, so you hire a graphic designer to do your branding for you.

Jaiden Robinson 00:37:30  How long does that usually take? A month. Sick. 4 to 6 weeks for them to turn that around. Right. And not to say they’re not doing amazing. They are doing amazing work, but like, they’re not delivering more than what a social media manager delivers in five social media posts Do you know what I mean? But yet we’re turning that around. Like every week. We’re turning that around every week, which is great. Like, how could you take on another job? Right?

Cassandra Skyway 00:38:00  It’s crazy when you’re.

Jaiden Robinson 00:38:01  Already doing six jobs. Video graphic design copy. Totally. You’re already doing this.

Cassandra Skyway 00:38:06  Jobs and this. This was the thing that I was listening to was suggesting that basically like, the social media manager should be open to, like, taking on some, like, content creation pieces. They should be like, open to taking on some marketing pieces. They should be open to like, more back and forth communication. And it’s just not feasible. It’s just not sustainable. I will say it’s it’s doable for a short period of time, and then you’re really going to wear somebody out.

Cassandra Skyway 00:38:37  And so you.

Jaiden Robinson 00:38:38  Really just need someone full time if that’s what you want.

Cassandra Skyway 00:38:40  Right. Which if you can if you have the budget for that, that would be an amazing direction to take is to take somebody on full time, give them a salary and benefits, and then you have somebody in your back pocket on a daily basis that you can communicate with whenever you want, and they can do things on a whim for you. Yeah. If you are a social media manager and you work for yourself and you do freelance and it’s just you, and maybe you outsource some other pieces, but it’s too hard to take on last minute requests. It’s too hard to not have the things that you need ahead of time.

Jaiden Robinson 00:39:16  Unless you’re gonna like, unless as a social media manager, you’re going to charge for every little thing like that, which I do.

Cassandra Skyway 00:39:24  It’s exhausting.

Jaiden Robinson 00:39:24  It’d be crazy because you’d be like texting and client and be like, okay, that’s a $150. That’s $150. Like, like every five minutes.

Jaiden Robinson 00:39:32  No one wants to do that. You’d be doing.

Cassandra Skyway 00:39:34  That. Yeah, I would feel super comfortable.

Jaiden Robinson 00:39:36  I’m good too.

Cassandra Skyway 00:39:37  I’m like, so yeah, I think that’s why you’re really smart transitioning your offer. I know that you’re doing remind the people what it’s called.

Jaiden Robinson 00:39:44  Instagram.

Cassandra Skyway 00:39:45  Okay. Yes, I knew it was an Angel number, but I didn’t know which one. That’s the one. But I think you’re really smart to do that. And that’s something that I’m experimenting to with as well, which is just like giving somebody the pieces that they need upfront at the start of a month, and then they can basically it’s like a plug and play.

Jaiden Robinson 00:40:02  Well, yeah. And like because also like for my client it takes them 15 to 30 minutes a day. Like if they’re if they’re posting daily some of them match their content. And in that case, I don’t know, add up five post time, 30 minutes. That’s probably how long it takes you to batch it out. But it takes them like not very long every day.

Jaiden Robinson 00:40:23  And they’re involved in the process. It’s their energy behind it. They’re also learning like content creation and like there they’re like there’s a coaching piece to it where they’re like learning what I do. Yes. So that like eventually they could do it for themselves, which is beautiful. Like I would love that. I would love them to like, learn enough that then they feel excited and want to take that on themselves. That’s great. Totally.

Cassandra Skyway 00:40:47  It’s that’s what it is too. It’s yeah, you’re getting a plan and you can then go and know exactly what you need to post and the kind of content, the kind of video or photo that you’ll need to pair that with. And then you’re also getting, like you said, this like coaching piece of like, hey, like this is how you know, this thing performed well. And this is probably why with this video, perhaps, try editing it this way and.

Jaiden Robinson 00:41:11  Like, it’s so much easier for you as the business owner, as the face of your personal brand to go find that content that you need.

Jaiden Robinson 00:41:19  So, like, I might prompt you to, like, do a carousel that are these specific images You are going to find those images way faster than I would be able to, because I don’t know your back end like I don’t. You know, no matter how organized it is, it’s like I didn’t photograph that wedding or whatever. So I don’t know. Right? That period like point blank, that’s what it is. And same with like videos. It’s like, you know where that is in your camera roll, right? I don’t know where that is in your camera roll. So it speeds like that’s where the cost gets cut down as well is it’s like you don’t have to pay me for that time that I’m like shuffling through your stuff, right? Which could take a while. Right? You just know where it is. You could just find it and post it. And like, that saves you time and money and it saves. Yeah. Me time and it comes right.

Cassandra Skyway 00:42:08  And it comes with like the captions and all that stuff.

Cassandra Skyway 00:42:10  And also that’s like a plug and play here and there because it’s like, yeah, you’re giving an outline and perhaps a hook or just an outline of a way in which, you know, it’s going to help the post perform. Yeah. But there are these pieces where they can insert their own voice and their story from their perspective. And that’s something that also cuts down the cost, because part of our job, if you are doing social media management done for you, social media management for somebody else is that you are also like taking all this time to like really understand them, like and where they came from, what they’re doing now and where they’re going. Yes, you’re and you’re learning their entire history because it’s important to be able to tell those stories and to be able to communicate the direction that the brand is going in. But the person on the other end knows that stuff. They can speak from their own experience.

Jaiden Robinson 00:43:07  Yes. And like what happens with like when you just completely our hands off? I keep saying completely hands off because I understand that there’s a there’s nuance and some people are have a social media manager in our hands on and it’s working really well and that’s fantastic.

Jaiden Robinson 00:43:23  But if you want to be completely hands off, how is someone who’s not a licensed physician and not a licensed personal trainer, not a licensed esthetician or whatever it is? How are they ever going to know the nuances of your business that, you know, make the difference because you don’t want your content to be Google able? You don’t want you don’t want it to be so surface level that like anyone can find it on Google. And if you’re having your social media manager do that for you, it’s going to be found on Google or ChatGPT. Because how would they know? Right. So I think it’s just important to like the content that’s going to perform well and do the best for your business is going to have like your knowledge and your voice. That’s what’s going to make it stand out from everyone else’s.

Cassandra Skyway 00:44:10  Totally. And I will say like the accounts that I do run that are full social media management accounts. Yeah, I do love those accounts. And I will say that those clients are all they all work with me in more of like a partnership way.

Jaiden Robinson 00:44:26  It doesn’t mean they’re not like, right, I’m not even going to see it right.

Cassandra Skyway 00:44:30  I’m doing right and I’m doing the majority of the heavy lifting for sure. And I’m doing the majority of like the time consuming pieces. And I’m planning things out from a standpoint of somebody who has a lot of experience. Yes. but they are still giving me content from their point of view. they’re still giving me. Yeah, photo and video. I’m telling them what I need. I need videos of this. Try looking at the camera when you do this, blah, blah, blah. But I am not just taking random photos and videos in a camera roll that’s been sitting there for months and like posting it. It’s a very like interactive process.

Jaiden Robinson 00:45:12  For your clients. Like do really well, like they perform well, they grow well, they get new clients.

Cassandra Skyway 00:45:17  Like, yeah, because it’s them and me. Both of.

Jaiden Robinson 00:45:20  You together. Yeah. That’s the account has been PSA that we do full management for still.

Jaiden Robinson 00:45:26  that is why that account is so successful is because they have me there to watch for trends, to create really good memes, to create really great, community building type content. Yeah. And then Isaac still shows up. The owner of the account still shows up and creates really engaging reels that like, I don’t even tell him to do that. He does that like he’s a content creator. He knows what he’s doing. Yeah, but like it’s the combination of the two of us working together, right. That makes it that’s made it so successful. And it’s also the fact that, like when he can’t post, there’s still consistency going on on his page. Right? Regardless. Period. All the time. Totally. Even if he’s on vacation and then when he’s not on vacation, he does. He can put in that little extra or whatever. So yeah, and that’s the difference between an account that like grows massively. Yeah. I mean, you’re you’re also part of that with the community. And that account has gone from 15 K to 100.

Cassandra Skyway 00:46:30  Done. Amazing.

Jaiden Robinson 00:46:32  I’m shook. It’s beautiful castles all the commenting on like other people’s content. She literally is so good at it it’s psychotic. Sometimes they will get like 50,000 likes on a comment.

Cassandra Skyway 00:46:47  Honestly, it’s so fun.

Jaiden Robinson 00:46:49  It’s crazy. It’s just.

Cassandra Skyway 00:46:50  Me scrolling.

Jaiden Robinson 00:46:51  Social media.

Cassandra Skyway 00:46:51  But with like a purpose. Like I’m just scrolling. Then I’m like, do do do. And then I scroll and I’m like, hahaha, this is funny. And Bruno was like, you’re not working. And I’m like, no, I am working, I am working.

Jaiden Robinson 00:47:04  It’s crazy though, like to see a comment get that many likes because people are fighting for that many likes on a post, on a post and like a comment. That is crazy. And anytime you’re gone and I have to do it, I might never get any likes. I’m like.

Cassandra Skyway 00:47:20  Oh.

Jaiden Robinson 00:47:21  That’s a.

Cassandra Skyway 00:47:21  Lie. But yeah, you’ve done a really good job with that account.

Jaiden Robinson 00:47:25  But yeah, that’s back to the main point.

Jaiden Robinson 00:47:27  It’s because of the collaboration. And that’s how like social media management can not be dead. Right.

Cassandra Skyway 00:47:32  And also sorry, one more small plug. Another way to not make your social media management or your social media dead show up on your stories. Listen, if you have a full social media manager, you have to be in your stories or I will kill you. Oh, O.

Jaiden Robinson 00:47:50  Murder. Kill all the bad.

Cassandra Skyway 00:47:52  Bury you in a ditch. You have to be on your stories like I cannot. I plan stories for my clients because there are certain things that take a little bit of planning. For example, if I’m doing some kind of like poll, I want to engage in the community in a certain way, or I want to post something about an offer that they have. That’s the kind of stuff that I can plan. Yeah, other things, like what you’re doing in a day of frustration. You had a victory. You had, I don’t know, that stuff. I wasn’t with you, I don’t know.

Cassandra Skyway 00:48:24  No.

Jaiden Robinson 00:48:25  That is honestly like if you do want to outsource your social media, like entirely, just completely hands off, like we’ve been talking about, at least show up on your stories. Yes. Or else, like, prepare to tank. Like you just prepared it for real though. Like if all of a sudden you’re just like.

Cassandra Skyway 00:48:42  The drama of.

Jaiden Robinson 00:48:43  Us and everything is like camera designed after that point, right? That’s like, it’s just literally like, it’s not gonna work.

Cassandra Skyway 00:48:51  Yeah.

Cassandra Skyway 00:48:52  It’s and and social media managers that are listening to this, I would say like communicate that with your clients, like communicate that. That’s like a necessary part of your collaboration together. is that or even if they’re just like, I don’t want to ever look at my social media again, communicate that piece for sure. That like, okay, like, you know, if you do want it to be that way, these are the, the results that you might see. Yeah. I would suggest that you’re in your stories every day.

Cassandra Skyway 00:49:19  And yes, I can supplement some of that. But for the most part, stories need to be driven by you. Yeah. And even if you’re not going to have a piece in any of the content on your feed, which, like we were saying, we would never recommend. Yeah. the very minimum you need to be in your story. In your.

Jaiden Robinson 00:49:34  Story. That’s like minimum. Yes. Please. Please, please. Yeah.

Cassandra Skyway 00:49:38  Anyway, I love.

Jaiden Robinson 00:49:40  That I don’t.

Cassandra Skyway 00:49:41  On my hand is like shaking from holding this.

Jaiden Robinson 00:49:44  It’s probably so heavy. I’m sorry. I don’t know.

Cassandra Skyway 00:49:46  I haven’t looked at this camera once. I’ve just been, like, staring into your eyes. So I’m like, who knows?

Jaiden Robinson 00:49:53  That’s okay. This was such a fun episode. Thank you so much for coming on. Yes, I loved having you.

Cassandra Skyway 00:49:59  Thank you so much. It was a blast.

Jaiden Robinson 00:50:01  We did it.

Cassandra Skyway 00:50:02  Hygiene and followers. Tell me if I said something crazy because I won’t know everyone.

Jaiden Robinson 00:50:08  Also, I’ll link you in the show notes, but I’ll put like your your info in there. Are you still doing your close friends group? No, no okay. That’s it’s.

Cassandra Skyway 00:50:15  Retired for now.

Jaiden Robinson 00:50:16   Retired for now, which is fine. But when it comes back, you’ll just have to follow her to see Cassandra Skyway. Okay. Yeah. Bye, everyone. Bye. First, I want to say thank you so much for being here and listening to my podcast. It means the world to me, and I just appreciate this community more than you could ever know. If you love this episode or a previous episode that you’ve listened to. Go ahead and head to the. Leave a review link in the show notes and leave us a review. We would really appreciate it and we’re so glad that you’re here. Thank you.